Shooting experience versus established ideas
Quote from mnt_monkey on 07/07/2023, 12:31Been on vacation I hope everybody had a good Fourth of July wanted to bring this topic up because sometimes technical information, for instance bullet length versus spin needed Etc doesn’t always line up with what I find in the field and on the bench I have come to some staunch positions mostly related to smokeless muzzle loading. I have come to these stubborn positions from shooting hundreds and hundreds of bullets, sometimes I must admit I do not look at charts and technical information I guess for a lot of us it depends on how you’re wired there are two paths to get to where you’re going mine might be harder or more hard-headed but I’ve learned a lot of what I’ve learned by shooting thousands of bullets not by taking information as best and running with it, I guess let me give a for instance I was told by several people well respected in the industry years ago a 20 twist rifle was all the speed and twist I would ever need I have found through shooting many different rifles with 20 twist ,,and for the last 6 years have switched to 18 ,the 18 is vastly superior to me, I’ve had people argue with me though in a friendly manner that the speed, rhe twist was too much ,the 20 was plenty, I have been asking them have you shot an 18 a lot and if you’ve shot an 18 have you shot it with the same array and variety of bullets you had to with the 20, because if you had you would find the 18 so much more versatile again I’m never saying anyone’s 20 is not a great rifle barrel I have several of them still they shoot fine, I hunt with a couple of different 20s but as far as versatility and accuracy from 180 grain 40 cal bullet to a 275 grain 40 cal bullet smokeless and 250 grain to 400 grain bullets size to bore I’m sorry the 20 just won’t do it, it’ll do it with some of those bullets but it will not do it with all of them. I can’t help but ask some of these questions too what about bore and groove,,, the accepted is 450-458 how about 450-457 or 450-456 a lot of competition with shallow Groove rifling years ago, maybe they know something we did don’t, a lot of 18 twists in some of those old matches maybe they knew something we don’t, I am looking for the most accurate of everything I can do and put into my muzzleloader I can’t help but sometimes wonder if we haven’t missed a lot because we get molded into accepted methods and established parameters if you think about it most of those accepted methods and parameters tend to be given to us by the people who were paying to get guns and bullets and powder from I personally want to get my advice from a shooter, that’s fine if that shooter happens to be in the industry and he’s a rifle Builder that’s all the more better I bring up this whole topic especially for the new smokeless Muzzleloader or black horn shooter or sub-shooter, learn all you can from reading and what is established but don’t be afraid to work around the edges a little bit and try new things of course I mean in a safe manner, sometimes I learn more by what my rifle won’t do than what my rifle will do.Half inch groups or less or I’m getting rid of it,, quarter inch or less or I’m not happy with it,, one hole makes me smile!!!
Been on vacation I hope everybody had a good Fourth of July wanted to bring this topic up because sometimes technical information, for instance bullet length versus spin needed Etc doesn’t always line up with what I find in the field and on the bench I have come to some staunch positions mostly related to smokeless muzzle loading. I have come to these stubborn positions from shooting hundreds and hundreds of bullets, sometimes I must admit I do not look at charts and technical information I guess for a lot of us it depends on how you’re wired there are two paths to get to where you’re going mine might be harder or more hard-headed but I’ve learned a lot of what I’ve learned by shooting thousands of bullets not by taking information as best and running with it, I guess let me give a for instance I was told by several people well respected in the industry years ago a 20 twist rifle was all the speed and twist I would ever need I have found through shooting many different rifles with 20 twist ,,and for the last 6 years have switched to 18 ,the 18 is vastly superior to me, I’ve had people argue with me though in a friendly manner that the speed, rhe twist was too much ,the 20 was plenty, I have been asking them have you shot an 18 a lot and if you’ve shot an 18 have you shot it with the same array and variety of bullets you had to with the 20, because if you had you would find the 18 so much more versatile again I’m never saying anyone’s 20 is not a great rifle barrel I have several of them still they shoot fine, I hunt with a couple of different 20s but as far as versatility and accuracy from 180 grain 40 cal bullet to a 275 grain 40 cal bullet smokeless and 250 grain to 400 grain bullets size to bore I’m sorry the 20 just won’t do it, it’ll do it with some of those bullets but it will not do it with all of them. I can’t help but ask some of these questions too what about bore and groove,,, the accepted is 450-458 how about 450-457 or 450-456 a lot of competition with shallow Groove rifling years ago, maybe they know something we did don’t, a lot of 18 twists in some of those old matches maybe they knew something we don’t, I am looking for the most accurate of everything I can do and put into my muzzleloader I can’t help but sometimes wonder if we haven’t missed a lot because we get molded into accepted methods and established parameters if you think about it most of those accepted methods and parameters tend to be given to us by the people who were paying to get guns and bullets and powder from I personally want to get my advice from a shooter, that’s fine if that shooter happens to be in the industry and he’s a rifle Builder that’s all the more better I bring up this whole topic especially for the new smokeless Muzzleloader or black horn shooter or sub-shooter, learn all you can from reading and what is established but don’t be afraid to work around the edges a little bit and try new things of course I mean in a safe manner, sometimes I learn more by what my rifle won’t do than what my rifle will do.Half inch groups or less or I’m getting rid of it,, quarter inch or less or I’m not happy with it,, one hole makes me smile!!!
Quote from customguns on 07/07/2023, 13:52Well said.
Well said.
Quote from Sideshow on 07/10/2023, 10:17I cant think of anybody that has contributed More practical usefull research and test results with the 45 bore than mtn monkey . His , effort , time , and $$$ spent on his own with results freely shared is just incredible . No person excludeing pro builders has built more muzzleloaders either . Many as idea test subjects with good or bad outcome at his expense . Untold Pounds of powder and bullets shot beyond count , all for the journey toward knowledge . Mark is truly a unique and one of a kind man . Absolutely exceptional . A true gift to the world of muzzleloading and a priveledge to be able to call him friend . If mtn monkey speaks the Wise Listen !!!
I cant think of anybody that has contributed More practical usefull research and test results with the 45 bore than mtn monkey . His , effort , time , and $$$ spent on his own with results freely shared is just incredible . No person excludeing pro builders has built more muzzleloaders either . Many as idea test subjects with good or bad outcome at his expense . Untold Pounds of powder and bullets shot beyond count , all for the journey toward knowledge . Mark is truly a unique and one of a kind man . Absolutely exceptional . A true gift to the world of muzzleloading and a priveledge to be able to call him friend . If mtn monkey speaks the Wise Listen !!!
Quote from customguns on 07/10/2023, 12:04That was a beautiful eulogy. 😂😂😂
Just kidding. Mountain Monkey is very much appreciated by many. More than his muzzleloader knowledge, he’s a good man.
That was a beautiful eulogy. 😂😂😂
Just kidding. Mountain Monkey is very much appreciated by many. More than his muzzleloader knowledge, he’s a good man.
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