Recoil
Quote from customguns on 09/16/2023, 16:22I get a lot of people asking me about recoil. Mainly when they’re deciding if they want a muzzle brake or not. Typically they’ll ask does a .50 kick more than a .45 or will a 350 grain bullet in .40 kick more than 300 grain bullet in .45. Really not giving an accurate answer if I lump a given caliber into recoiling the same as other guns the same caliber. There are many good and free recoil calculators out there. Many will ask for the caliber, weight of bullet, muzzle velocity, grains of powder and weight of the gun. Using those inputs the recoil is calculated. Generally speaking, 9 ft/lbs of recoil is like shooting a .243. 18 ft/lbs of recoil is like shooting a .308. Most people are comfortable somewhere between 9 ft/lbs to 18 ft/lbs. Even though the SMLs are large calibers, you don’t have to get beat up with heavy recoil. By adding weight to your gun and installing a muzzle brake, you can reduce recoil by 65% or more. Some guys take pride in handling stout recoil. Great if they can do it, but there are no exercises I know of for strengthening your retinas. As you age they become more susceptible to tearing from heavy recoil. For that reason none of my personal muzzleloaders have recoil more than 18 ft/lbs and I shoot heavy loads fairly fast. Yes, the muzzle brakes can be loud, but I’ve gotten use to wearing game ears and they also come in useful wearing them hunting.
I get a lot of people asking me about recoil. Mainly when they’re deciding if they want a muzzle brake or not. Typically they’ll ask does a .50 kick more than a .45 or will a 350 grain bullet in .40 kick more than 300 grain bullet in .45. Really not giving an accurate answer if I lump a given caliber into recoiling the same as other guns the same caliber. There are many good and free recoil calculators out there. Many will ask for the caliber, weight of bullet, muzzle velocity, grains of powder and weight of the gun. Using those inputs the recoil is calculated. Generally speaking, 9 ft/lbs of recoil is like shooting a .243. 18 ft/lbs of recoil is like shooting a .308. Most people are comfortable somewhere between 9 ft/lbs to 18 ft/lbs. Even though the SMLs are large calibers, you don’t have to get beat up with heavy recoil. By adding weight to your gun and installing a muzzle brake, you can reduce recoil by 65% or more. Some guys take pride in handling stout recoil. Great if they can do it, but there are no exercises I know of for strengthening your retinas. As you age they become more susceptible to tearing from heavy recoil. For that reason none of my personal muzzleloaders have recoil more than 18 ft/lbs and I shoot heavy loads fairly fast. Yes, the muzzle brakes can be loud, but I’ve gotten use to wearing game ears and they also come in useful wearing them hunting.
Quote from Ninering62 on 09/18/2023, 11:54Quote from customguns on 09/16/2023, 16:22I get a lot of people asking me about recoil. Mainly when they’re deciding if they want a muzzle brake or not. Typically they’ll ask does a .50 kick more than a .45 or will a 350 grain bullet in .40 kick more than 300 grain bullet in .45. Really not giving an accurate answer if I lump a given caliber into recoiling the same as other guns the same caliber. There are many good and free recoil calculators out there. Many will ask for the caliber, weight of bullet, muzzle velocity, grains of powder and weight of the gun. Using those inputs the recoil is calculated. Generally speaking, 9 ft/lbs of recoil is like shooting a .243. 18 ft/lbs of recoil is like shooting a .308. Most people are comfortable somewhere between 9 ft/lbs to 18 ft/lbs. Even though the SMLs are large calibers, you don’t have to get beat up with heavy recoil. By adding weight to your gun and installing a muzzle brake, you can reduce recoil by 65% or more. Some guys take pride in handling stout recoil. Great if they can do it, but there are no exercises I know of for strengthening your retinas. As you age they become more susceptible to tearing from heavy recoil. For that reason none of my personal muzzleloaders have recoil more than 18 ft/lbs and I shoot heavy loads fairly fast. Yes, the muzzle brakes can be loud, but I’ve gotten use to wearing game ears and they also come in useful wearing them hunting.
Thanks for another fantastic post & topic to discuss.
I hope that this topic generates some responses with their insights, knowledge & personal experiences. Its a vastly deep topic technically & one where many ppl will only see the end results of the physics aspect of it & relate to it in that simplicity. I happen to know of a handful of guys in the forum that are very knowledgeable ( real deal experts in shooting, reloading ) with decades of ” broad spectrum ” experiences with many powder types, bullet weights & calibers, in multiple shooting disciplines that I invite to weigh in on this topic. We have a few in here, that could literally teach a class in this topic, as well as many others.
I look forward to their replies.
Now, my .2c; I think that understanding the physics – “cause & effect” of whats referred to as ” felt recoil” is only the tip of the iceberg of what is really all involved with, not only the ft lbs of force they feel, but the actual ” recoil signature ” which is a whole big topic unto itself. It is completely oblivious to most shooters. Which is why they ask the types of questions which they do, & demonstrates my point.
I’ve been shooting for 53+yrs, & I’ve shot all kinds of guns & muzzleloaders. I never had a clue about any of this subject until 4yrs ago & I started learning about reloading & all of the technical things involved in that, & applying that, to muzzleloading, started experimenting with BH209 ( which was a new powder to me then ) and & noticed the diff recoil signature between using loose T7 & a given bullet, at a determined velocity, then taking BH 209 & building a charge that gets you the same velocity, how differently those two recoil signatures are. YOU CAN’T HELP BUT NOTICE! I found that fascinating. And the reading & talking with some of these experts about that started & has not stopped.
Now, take that difference between T7 & BH209 in ” felt recoil ” and take a given smokeless powder, use enough powder to match exactly the velocity of the same bullet used with the other two powders, & that recoil signature will be different too. Then switch to a slower burning powder with a lower peak pressure & a slower pressure curve, use just enough to match the same bullet to the same velocity. That recoil signature will be completely different too. Then take a faster burning powder with a quick peak & sharp rise ” spike ” and repeat the same things, that recoil signature will be completely different too.
Baring all of the physics equations involved here, and only addressing, what 99% of ppl are asking those questions about recoil, is from that level of understanding & thats all.
So, heres the best way that I can explain the various types of & levels of ” felt recoil ” are; the differences between a slap & a punch, a punch & a kick, a kick & a shove. The neat thing here is, that they can all generate the same amount of ft lbs of energy, and all, feel completely different from one another.
There is a lot of learning, reading, research that goes into finding that balance of using the right powder, with the right amount, with the right bullet weight that will give the best accuracy, with the least amount of peak pressure, with the most velocity with an acceptable ( to the shooter ) level of felt recoil. Having computer reloading programs & pressure trace data nowadays is a must have for anyone that wants to get into reloading Center Fire weapons & smokeless muzzleloading. Its not quite as critical of a thing when using BP or BP subs.
Having a well designed muzzle brake for your application will allow a shooter to push heavier bullets at faster speeds, generation much higher levels of felt recoil, & eliminate 40, 50, 60% of felt recoil. Thats another great topis of discussion – muzzle brakes & having the right one for what you need with what you’re doing. Want & need, there, are almost always two different things. ” Need ” needs to win that battle to be the most effective for that shooter.
Quote from customguns on 09/16/2023, 16:22I get a lot of people asking me about recoil. Mainly when they’re deciding if they want a muzzle brake or not. Typically they’ll ask does a .50 kick more than a .45 or will a 350 grain bullet in .40 kick more than 300 grain bullet in .45. Really not giving an accurate answer if I lump a given caliber into recoiling the same as other guns the same caliber. There are many good and free recoil calculators out there. Many will ask for the caliber, weight of bullet, muzzle velocity, grains of powder and weight of the gun. Using those inputs the recoil is calculated. Generally speaking, 9 ft/lbs of recoil is like shooting a .243. 18 ft/lbs of recoil is like shooting a .308. Most people are comfortable somewhere between 9 ft/lbs to 18 ft/lbs. Even though the SMLs are large calibers, you don’t have to get beat up with heavy recoil. By adding weight to your gun and installing a muzzle brake, you can reduce recoil by 65% or more. Some guys take pride in handling stout recoil. Great if they can do it, but there are no exercises I know of for strengthening your retinas. As you age they become more susceptible to tearing from heavy recoil. For that reason none of my personal muzzleloaders have recoil more than 18 ft/lbs and I shoot heavy loads fairly fast. Yes, the muzzle brakes can be loud, but I’ve gotten use to wearing game ears and they also come in useful wearing them hunting.
Thanks for another fantastic post & topic to discuss.
I hope that this topic generates some responses with their insights, knowledge & personal experiences. Its a vastly deep topic technically & one where many ppl will only see the end results of the physics aspect of it & relate to it in that simplicity. I happen to know of a handful of guys in the forum that are very knowledgeable ( real deal experts in shooting, reloading ) with decades of ” broad spectrum ” experiences with many powder types, bullet weights & calibers, in multiple shooting disciplines that I invite to weigh in on this topic. We have a few in here, that could literally teach a class in this topic, as well as many others.
I look forward to their replies.
Now, my .2c; I think that understanding the physics – “cause & effect” of whats referred to as ” felt recoil” is only the tip of the iceberg of what is really all involved with, not only the ft lbs of force they feel, but the actual ” recoil signature ” which is a whole big topic unto itself. It is completely oblivious to most shooters. Which is why they ask the types of questions which they do, & demonstrates my point.
I’ve been shooting for 53+yrs, & I’ve shot all kinds of guns & muzzleloaders. I never had a clue about any of this subject until 4yrs ago & I started learning about reloading & all of the technical things involved in that, & applying that, to muzzleloading, started experimenting with BH209 ( which was a new powder to me then ) and & noticed the diff recoil signature between using loose T7 & a given bullet, at a determined velocity, then taking BH 209 & building a charge that gets you the same velocity, how differently those two recoil signatures are. YOU CAN’T HELP BUT NOTICE! I found that fascinating. And the reading & talking with some of these experts about that started & has not stopped.
Now, take that difference between T7 & BH209 in ” felt recoil ” and take a given smokeless powder, use enough powder to match exactly the velocity of the same bullet used with the other two powders, & that recoil signature will be different too. Then switch to a slower burning powder with a lower peak pressure & a slower pressure curve, use just enough to match the same bullet to the same velocity. That recoil signature will be completely different too. Then take a faster burning powder with a quick peak & sharp rise ” spike ” and repeat the same things, that recoil signature will be completely different too.
Baring all of the physics equations involved here, and only addressing, what 99% of ppl are asking those questions about recoil, is from that level of understanding & thats all.
So, heres the best way that I can explain the various types of & levels of ” felt recoil ” are; the differences between a slap & a punch, a punch & a kick, a kick & a shove. The neat thing here is, that they can all generate the same amount of ft lbs of energy, and all, feel completely different from one another.
There is a lot of learning, reading, research that goes into finding that balance of using the right powder, with the right amount, with the right bullet weight that will give the best accuracy, with the least amount of peak pressure, with the most velocity with an acceptable ( to the shooter ) level of felt recoil. Having computer reloading programs & pressure trace data nowadays is a must have for anyone that wants to get into reloading Center Fire weapons & smokeless muzzleloading. Its not quite as critical of a thing when using BP or BP subs.
Having a well designed muzzle brake for your application will allow a shooter to push heavier bullets at faster speeds, generation much higher levels of felt recoil, & eliminate 40, 50, 60% of felt recoil. Thats another great topis of discussion – muzzle brakes & having the right one for what you need with what you’re doing. Want & need, there, are almost always two different things. ” Need ” needs to win that battle to be the most effective for that shooter.
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